[idea] RPG mode - 1 character mode ("Soloist")

Ideas for cool stuff in the future.
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tangar
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Re: [idea] RPG mode - only 1 character

Post by tangar » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:59 pm

Druidor, it's great to hear such story :D When I read your post, I felt somehow your nostalgic feelings...

It's still would be fun to go BD in RPG-mode. I believe a lot of players would prefer BD because of tree-passing (climbing set for OC at RPG would be quite rare) ;)

Let's hope that such mode would appear one day...
Tangar's tileset, addon, guides & maps: English TomeNET page ||||||| Russian TomeNet page
http://youtube.com/GlazGame — streams in English // http://youtube.com/StreamGuild — streams in Russian
My chars @ angband.oook.cz

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tangar
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Re: [idea] RPG mode - only 1 character

Post by tangar » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:23 pm

A dream is a dream.

This is trully good mode for returning back.

Yeat Another Reason - all my character slots are occupied. I don't wanna return to old character, but at the same moment it's a pity to delete them (also I got houses on them, yet another reason to preserve them).

RPG mode would be great possibility for returning veterans.
Tangar's tileset, addon, guides & maps: English TomeNET page ||||||| Russian TomeNet page
http://youtube.com/GlazGame — streams in English // http://youtube.com/StreamGuild — streams in Russian
My chars @ angband.oook.cz

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tangar
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Re: [idea] RPG mode - only 1 character

Post by tangar » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:51 pm

Sorry for repeating but I wanna add some actualization to current situation.

Right now main TomeNET server got 3 gameplay modes:
- Normal (includes NE and EL)
- IDDC
- PvP

Also there is a separate 'RPG server' which got IDDC-like ruleset with force-down dungeons from which you can not come back till you reach bottom levels which is feels like a torture to me (it's not fun to be trapped inside without possibility to exit).

I got a suggestion:

To add new 'RPG' mode at main TomeNET server. This mode could have such features:
tangar wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 7:55 pm
1) add 1 more character slot exclusive for RPG-mode
2) RPG-mode character is the same 'no Ghost' (1 life)
3) restrict trade/party with NE and EL characters

It's the same ruleset at current NE mode, the only difference is: you die -> you have to start over.
Tangar's tileset, addon, guides & maps: English TomeNET page ||||||| Russian TomeNet page
http://youtube.com/GlazGame — streams in English // http://youtube.com/StreamGuild — streams in Russian
My chars @ angband.oook.cz

C. Blue
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Re: [idea] RPG mode - only 1 character

Post by C. Blue » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:06 pm

Currently there are no plans to extend the amount of characters per account, also because of the amount of (free) houses.

However, your suggestion is already possible by creating an unworldly character, then creating an iron team and finally closing the iron team immediately via /pclose command (or use P menu in the latest test client).

What this does is:

1) Creating an unworldly character speaks for itself.
2) An iron team can only be created with level 1 characters that have no experience yet, so it means it cannot be faked or be done later on. Iron team characters can only trade with other members of the same iron team. So by creating an iron team it ensures that you cannot trade with anyone outside your iron team.
3) Close an iron team: A closed iron team does not allow for any further members. So by doing it when you are the only member in it, that means you won't be able to trade with anyone at all, as closing an iron team is a procedure that cannot be undone ever. Also it is visible to everyone in the @ list when an iron team is closed (party name looks a bit different, it has enclosing dark grey < > brackets).

What could further be done: Closing an iron team could be changed to be only allowed at level 1 (0 exp), currently it is allowed at any time. Let me know if you think this is a good change or not.

I will look into adding a specific solo-unwordly mode to character creation that basically does all the above things for you automatically, to make it easier. (And display a corresponding indicator in @ list.) I cannot give an ETA for this at the moment though.

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tangar
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Re: [idea] RPG mode - only 1 character

Post by tangar » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:00 pm

Blue, thank you very much for a detailed explanation!
C. Blue wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:06 pm
2) An iron team can only be created with level 1 characters that have no experience yet, so it means it cannot be faked or be done later on. Iron team characters can only trade with other members of the same iron team. So by creating an iron team it ensures that you cannot trade with anyone outside your iron team.
Oh, it's really cool! I didn't know that Iron Team system works like this! It's definitely the thing which I wanted!
C. Blue wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:06 pm
What could further be done: Closing an iron team could be changed to be only allowed at level 1 (0 exp), currently it is allowed at any time. Let me know if you think this is a good change or not.
Yeah, it would be great to have a possibility to allow closing team _only_ at level 1 (0 exp). It would be wonderful to have such feature to avoid any possible cheezing :D
C. Blue wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:06 pm
I will look into adding a specific solo-unwordly mode to character creation that basically does all the above things for you automatically, to make it easier. (And display a corresponding indicator in @ list.) I cannot give an ETA for this at the moment though.
This sounds amazing! 8-)
Tangar's tileset, addon, guides & maps: English TomeNET page ||||||| Russian TomeNet page
http://youtube.com/GlazGame — streams in English // http://youtube.com/StreamGuild — streams in Russian
My chars @ angband.oook.cz

C. Blue
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Re: [idea] RPG mode - only 1 character

Post by C. Blue » Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:54 pm

The test client has been updated and offers "Soloist" mode on character creation now. That is the same as "No Ghost" except you cannot trade with anybody. This mode has not really been tested so please report it if you find a bug by using the "/bug" slash command.

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tangar
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Re: [idea] RPG mode - only 1 character

Post by tangar » Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:24 pm

Awesome :D THANKS!

So far I got such suggestions (and I'm not totally sure about them yet, just wanna share my thoughts):

1) separate true-arts for soloist-mode
2) allow trade between soloist-mode players at _certain_ lvls (for example, at lvl 35+ ? or 45+?). Lvl restriction would help to prevent any possible cheezing and at the same time trade possibility would help to preserve players interactions and fix equipment issues at high lvls. So the idea - you could pick up other soloist players' items only if your character reached certain lvl.
3) if trade would be allowed - add possibility to create only 1 soloist character per account. It would restrict any possible cheezing (cause creating more than one account in TomeNET is forbidden).
Tangar's tileset, addon, guides & maps: English TomeNET page ||||||| Russian TomeNet page
http://youtube.com/GlazGame — streams in English // http://youtube.com/StreamGuild — streams in Russian
My chars @ angband.oook.cz

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tangar
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Re: [idea] RPG mode - only 1 character

Post by tangar » Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:56 am

Yet another addition:

Now 'soloist' chars are able to use all houses at account, so they do not need to buy houses of their own. Also there is a bug with houses, which I already reported in-game..

Suggestion:
- forbid 'soloist' chars to enter (open doors) any other houses except their own

Also wanna comment:
C. Blue wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:06 pm
Currently there are no plans to extend the amount of characters per account, also because of the amount of (free) houses.
I understand your concerns, it's not fun if one player are able to get too much houses. For example, currently I got ~30 houses and I do not need more really.

But if 'soloist' mode would be separate mode like IDDC or PvP and would have exclusieve character slot - there wouldn't be any danger of holding extra houses if this suggestion would be realised:

- make 30 houses limit per account as global limit for all modes (so if there would be an exclusieve slot character for 'soloist' - players couldn't use it just to hold more houses at their account).

Also 'soloist' characters die pretty often, so they would buy mainly cheap small houses which are not occupied by players in most cases. It would be good for filling the niche of small-scale private properly at TomeNET market :)


----
UPDATE:

Considering houses :D Actually there is + and - in this particular idea. Right now it's pretty fun to have access to all houses as 'soloist' cause you don't need to spend a lot of time on buying/selling houses and moving items from one place to another... So this idea is certanly not urgent and even maybe leave it like it is now; but if it would be implemented - it's also ok. Up to devs to decide ;D
Tangar's tileset, addon, guides & maps: English TomeNET page ||||||| Russian TomeNet page
http://youtube.com/GlazGame — streams in English // http://youtube.com/StreamGuild — streams in Russian
My chars @ angband.oook.cz

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tangar
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Re: [idea] RPG mode - only 1 character

Post by tangar » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:35 pm

Just wanna add that 'soloist' char is really good mode. After you die with soloist char - you are able to get it's loot and items by any NE-character. It makes your progress not to go in vain.

I really enjoy this mode, huge thanks to developers!

I've /rfed some more features (like turn off 'magic mapping' before 40 lvl, forbid participate in events & etc), hope this mode would continue develop!
Tangar's tileset, addon, guides & maps: English TomeNET page ||||||| Russian TomeNet page
http://youtube.com/GlazGame — streams in English // http://youtube.com/StreamGuild — streams in Russian
My chars @ angband.oook.cz

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tangar
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Re: [idea] RPG mode - only 1 character ("Soloist")

Post by tangar » Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:49 am

Soloist mode and participation in game events

Problem:
it is possible to get an OOD-item at lvl 1 by participating in regular events (dungeon keeper & etc) while in "soloist" mode.

Events give solid possibility to get endgame OOD-item from the start. As main feature of 'Soloist' mode - traditional roguelike experience when every character have to start from zero and without cheezing later on, such powerful rewards doesn't fit to 'Soloist'. In this events you could get !endgame! items, like +10 mana staff or +25/+25 bow from the start (level 1) what just ruins soloist mode idea.

Currently events reward calculated from the view of NE/EL TomeNET modes, where players got loads of loot in their houses and having a top bow isn't really influence gameplay (anyway real game starts at 45+ lvls). But at 'Soloist' mode it works different. EX: my 'Soloist' archer which had to enhance bow to +12/+12 at lvl 31 ( http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=22073 ). It was interesting and challenging gameplay. Playing with top weapon just from a start - not-TomeNETish gameplay, it doesn't fit to 'Soloist' (extra-hard) mode.

On discussion of this matter were provided an opinion that sometimes you could find the very best items in the dungeon even at the beginning, with the example that recently someone found speed boots on low levels (<20). Considering finding speed boots example - there is always a tiny chance of spawning OOD monster behind your back which insta-kill you. The same thing with getting speed boots - you could be lucky. But it's extremely rare occasions - I don't remember finding any speed boots at low lvls ever, and it doesn't make me replay low lvls again and again to get them. Getting OOD-item via item is pretty ordinary, probable and repetitive event which couldn't be compared to the super-rare RNG in the dungeons.

As TomeNET is multiplayer game there is always a competition between playes - you just can't ignoring events (such HUGE cheeze) - it would give other players huge advantage over. That's why there is 'Soloist' mode - to have fair and equal game rules for everyone... Cause with approach "you can just ignore events" - there is no need to have 'Soloist' mode at all, as player "could just ignore possibility to cheeze at regular NE mode".

So currently if you play 'Soloist' - you are obliged to participate in events. For a few minutes you have quite high chance of getting OOD-item. The price which you pay if you would fail is nothing - getting killed at lvl 1 is nothing compare of getting killed at high lvls (probability which you decreas drammatically by getting top item from beginning).

Currently I feel 'Soloist' pretty ideal mode and there is not any other critical things to change, except 'events' reward. People who wish to get OOD-items from events have a lot of such possibilities at NE and EL characters, where OOD-items doesn't really affect gameplay cause of loads and hoards of randarts in players storages. At 'soloist' OOD-items really matters and break this mode, destroying possibility to have 'newbie', legit gameplay experience in TomeNET, which isn't accessible in other game modes.

This mode is best gameplay experience which I had in TomeNET ever - fair play without any possiblities to cheeze and A LOT of freedom (could go any dungeon when even I like).. So having this OOD-item events make it less fun - it's removes part of players' freedom, making participating in event obligatory.. And it creates 'grind' experience cause you should repeat it again and again (sometime unlucky to get item), as you don't have an alternative - you _should_ use this possibility to be effective. And last thing, which is more specific to my personal gameplay experience - I can't stream new player experience cause if I fail DK - I had to stop my stream and wait a few hours till next DK time.. Of course I could just ignore events and play without them to make my streams more fun; I'm doing this right now. But then I'm not in equal situation to players who using events to get extra-powerful items; it ruins fair competition of multiplayer experience.

Suggestion:

At first I thought that it would be right thing just to forbid participation in events for 'Soloist' mode. But it's also removing a part of freedom from players who just enjoy events and at the same time likes 'Soloist' mode (I myself like events :P). But there is yet another way:

Nerf events rewards for 'soloist' mode.

Make it not possible to get any kinds of weapon (high damage makes lvling super EZ PZ); lets it would possible to get only piece of armour with +10 - +15 enhanced armour; with rare occasion to get base resistances (only for body part) or one minor resistance (any other body part).

This reward would be nice, but won't be too much. I personally would enjoy to participate in event and try my luck everytime to get such boost.. But at the same moment if I'll fail on stream - I'll just create new char and start without event, because it's reward really doesn't influence gameplay and it totally ok to ignore it and play without it :)
Tangar's tileset, addon, guides & maps: English TomeNET page ||||||| Russian TomeNet page
http://youtube.com/GlazGame — streams in English // http://youtube.com/StreamGuild — streams in Russian
My chars @ angband.oook.cz

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