Paladins

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Kevmo2000
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Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:59 am

Paladins

Post by Kevmo2000 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:52 am

I'm not sure if this belongs here, but the idea behind this thread is to talk about paladin builds and strategies with them. Hopefully we can discuss the pros and cons of each build and decide which is the best(if there is a single best).

I play only unworldly characters, so I need durability and stability in my characters. Probably my favorite build is the holy off/sup paladin. The build is a weapon mastery (I prefer hafted, but any mastery will do really), holy offense, and holy support for your main skills. You will use your weapon to bash monsters, and when that fails, you can either buff up with holy support or kill from afar with orb of draining. This is a really nice build because you won't be losing weapons to ringwraiths, and you don't need too much fancy equipment to get to a relatively high level or be strong.

Build and Strategy:

Low level(1-27):

Go to 9 and purchase a Sense Monsters book and Holy Light. As soon as you can, put 2 and only 2 points into holy support; this way, the cost of Sense Monsters will not increase. Use Sense Monsters to... sense monsters(the more information you know in TomeNET, the better). Max out your specific weapon mastery and holy offense. Put a bit of points into magic (5 to 10 or so, it's up to you). Holy Light will be pretty useless until you're higher level (14 or so, I can't recall), but once it kicks in it can be a life saver. Try not to mash out Holy Light if you're in a bind; cast it once, wait a few moments for the monsters to recover from their confusion, then cast it again when they are all near you. You will have spare skill points; put some into combat, but make sure you have 36 spare points by the time you hit level 28.

Mid level(28-36):

When you hit level 28, max out holy support (with those 36 spare points you saved up); in this way, you will get ESP from casting Sense Monsters. Don't put anymore points into holy support after this, for now anyways. Keep maxing holy offense and your specific weapon mastery as usual. At this point you will want to use your ESP for stat hunting; minas is pretty good for stat hunting, just make sure that you have nether res. If you prefer gondolin, dark elven warlocks are a good source of stat pots(just watch out for their manabolts).

Also, you will want to pick up a book of Orb of Draining(OoD) eventually. OoD is a great spell that doesn't cost too much sp and does double damage against evil creatures. At first, your casting rate will be abysmal, but once you get higher wisdom, you will be able to cast it consistently. If you're having mana problems, I suggest that you first try to get a mana regeneration item (some magi gloves, some magi crowns, or an amulet of mana regeneration will do). If that does not solve your mana problem, you can put some more points into magic. Remember that you are not a mage, so you shouldn't be using magic to kill everything. But against ringwraiths, it is possible(and I suggest) to kill them using only OoD.

You'll probably have spare points again; save some of them, as you will be maxing holy support later on. The rest(the spare spares) can go into combat or weaponmastery.

High level(37-50+): Max out holy support when you hit level 37 and pick up a book of Sense Surroundings. At this level, sense surroundings gives enlightenment or clairvoyance, which lights up and maps the whole level for you. Very useful. You'll want to pick up a spellbook of Zeal eventually. Zeal gives you extra attacks(up to 3), which helps very much with your combat potential.

Keep maxing out your specific weapon mastery, holy offense, and holy support. As holy support levels, your fail rate on Zeal will lower, which lets it be more useful. Save Zeal for especially tough uniques, angels, or demons, as it costs quite a bit of sp. You'll probably keep getting spare skill points as usual, so just put them into combat or weaponmastery for maximum damage. When holy support hits skill level 40, you will no longer need food. This is important, because now you can chug potions without getting gorged. As holy offense levels up, you get various slay brands(undead, demons, and evil, I think) automatically, which helps with damage.



Some people really like stealth, so instead of putting points into combat or weaponmastery, you could put points into stealth. It might be worth it, but you can get stealth from a variety of different items (elven armor, cloaks, and boots), so to me, they are better spent elsewhere. Alternatively, you could put points into health, but I never really have hp problems as a dwarf paladin as long as you have enough +CON items (I usually die to stupidity, something more hp helps resist).

DeathGod
Posts: 21
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Re: Paladins

Post by DeathGod » Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:03 pm

recent stealth nerf makes the skill more desirable imo

Cornelius

Re: Paladins

Post by Cornelius » Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:34 pm

One thing that I find a lot of new players miss is that some magic schools don't have to be skilled to 50 to get a lot of use out of them. For Paladins, Holy Defense is one of these schools. While there is a lot of benefits to skilling it to 50 (Nice intrinsic protection from evil, Glyph of Warding, and Martyrdom spell), If you're starved for points you can try skilling it only to 35ish. This would give you a nice basic res spell and a fully upgraded Blessing. Both of these can be replaced by scrolls and potions, but I find having them as a spell saves a lot of cash and allows you to have them on almost all the time.

One thing to beware with some Priest and Paladin spells is that they auto-project. In terms of other players this is a great thing. You cast your healing, blessing, zeal, etc and your team mates get a nice boost as well. What you need to look out for is that a lot of these spells will wake up monsters. Zeal is a good example of this since it doesn't last very many turns and often needs to be recast mid battle. You're fighting a pack of sleeping Barbazou, go to recast Zeal and you could wake up the entire pack if you don't back off to a safe distance before casting it.

C. Blue
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Re: Paladins

Post by C. Blue » Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:04 pm

Isn't holy offense the opposite of stability and durability? I would think that curing + defense school provide said, rather?

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PowerWyrm
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Re: Paladins

Post by PowerWyrm » Tue May 20, 2014 6:02 pm

The problem with Kevmo's build is that, at least in recent versions, you won't have the mana to cast your offensive spells unless you invest in the costly Magic skill or put on magi gloves. And Orb of Draining is quite high level (starts at 20 with huge fail rate). That's why I'm currently trying a slower, but more effective, paladin build. See below for the updated build.
Last edited by PowerWyrm on Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PowerWyrm
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Re: Paladins

Post by PowerWyrm » Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:55 pm

[irrelevant post deleted]
Last edited by PowerWyrm on Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PowerWyrm
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Re: Paladins

Post by PowerWyrm » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:16 pm

[irrelevant post deleted]
Last edited by PowerWyrm on Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PowerWyrm
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Re: Paladins

Post by PowerWyrm » Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:48 pm

The latest server patch introduced tiers for spells, which changed a bit the levels at which you'll be able to cast spells. So here's an updated build for my Maia Paladin:

First, roll a Maia paladin. You will need STR for your weapon (and shield), INT to cast spells and WIS for your mana pool. Your starting DEX, CON and CHR will be sufficient, so don't put any point in them. My starting stats: 18/30 16 18 10 10 13. This is enough to get 3 bpr at start with a main gauche or whip and cast most low level spells.

It's up to you, but I always like starting with a good item to help such builds: a good weapon, a good hat, or even good boots. That's why I tend to sign for the first Dungeon Keeper event that is happening on the server. I'd say you have roughly a fifty-fifty chance to win the event, so it's worth it. If you lose, play another character (you'll even get a luck boost) and retry two hours later. Items I've started with include dagger (Defender), crown of lordliness or boots of mirkwood. Or even a good body armor of resistance. Priceless for a low level character.

For the purpose of this build, let's assume you don't start with any item. The build I'll choose is sword/interception/holy defense/holy support/astral knowledge. These five skills can be maxed at level 50, and this build will leave you 7 spare points to spend. Since it's not much and they won't help in any skill (sneakiness, combat, weaponmastery), I'll spend them right at the beginning into Magic to get a decent mana pool for the early levels.

In the beginning, buy a main gauche, a small shield, a lantern and a book of Power Bolt. Any spare cash should be spent in cure serious wounds and phase doors. Go to the Training Tower (or Barrows -50) and try to melee everything you can and kill everything that flees or stay at range with Power Bolt. For your first two level ups, spend all your skill points into Astral Knowledge (3) and Magic (7).

Buy as many cures/phases as you can, a Word of Recall, and go to the Orc Caves. Stairscum, try to kill everything you can and grab everything you can while staying near the stairs. You should quickly gain some levels by killing low level orcs and similar monsters (don't forget to cast Blessing I from your starting book!). Now max out sword mastery to deal more damage in melee, but don't allocate any spare skill points. Once you have enough loot, recall to Bree and sell everything. With the cash, buy 3-4 Word of Recall, a book of Detect Evil and a book of Holy Light I. Spare gold goes again into phases and cure pots. If you play everlasting, try to keep 1500 gold and enable instant resurrection. If you have enough spare cash, start to improve your weapon with scrolls of enchant to-dam and to-hit (in that order, since you get more to-hit from mastery and the bless spell).

If you're level 9 or so, you should have more than 10 spare skill points. Skill Holy Support until you can cast both Detect Evil and Holy Light I (a skill value of 4 should be enough). All remaining spares should now go into Interception. Go back to the Orc Caves and start to explore -50ft more thoroughly. At this point, it's just a matter of staying out of trouble, gaining some levels, selling some loot and improving your equipment. For each level up, max out sword mastery and put the remaining points into interception. Once both are maxed, spare any unallocated skill points.

Once you hit level 14, you will have to work on your enlightened path. Go down to -150ft and scum for a darkling. Beware, it's not easy to kill him without confusion resistance, so bring down a few cure serious wounds and ideally a potion of speed. Once you've killed a darkling and until level 20, be careful not killing any candlebearer generated on each level. Dive into the Orc Cave, get loot, improve your equipment again (check player shops for elven armour, rings of extra attacks, +int/wis items, confusion/blind resistance, free action, ...) and simply try to stay alive.

Level 20 is the first turning point of your build: your sword mastery will increase to 0.975 and your prayer schools will increase to 1.176, giving a lot of spare skill points. Max out sword and interception again. Reskill Holy Support (some points will have been taken out) to learn Detect Evil and Holy Light I again (I would increase the skill to 7 to have minimum fail rate of 6% on both spells). Buy a Holy Resistance I book. Pump Holy Defense to 20 to be able to cast the spell (resist heat and cold). If you want, you can replace your 3 other books by a Handbook of Novice Etiquette. Otherwise you can also replace your Blessing I book by a Blessing II book, which will turn your bless spell into a Holy Chant.

Level 23 is the second turning point of your build: your sword mastery grants you one extra bpr, finally raising your dps to correct value. At this point, try to max out your dps with rings of extra attacks (expensive) or rings of damage (common and cheaper). Try to get a good weapon (ego with +stats and good +dam, and esp evil if possible). Since you won't get speed until much later in the game unless you're incredibly lucky, buy a lot of speed pots and don't hesitate to use them for big fights. Your mana pool should be now approaching 40 (or better if you found +wis items already), so you can increase Holy Support to 20 and buy a book of Sense Surroundings I for magic mapping. However, scrolls of magic mapping can do the job fine for now.

Throughout the game, you will put more points into Astral Knowledge, respecting the following simple rule: raise the skill by 5 points for each extra 20 mana you gain. At level 3, you should have Astral Knowledge at level 5 (cost = 2) and roughly 20 mana. Once your mana hits 40, raise it to 10, and so on... Check shop 9 regularly for books of Power Blast I, and buy one as soon as your fail rate is low enough to be able to cast the spell without too much trouble (you will need Astral Knowledge at 10 to be able to cast the spell). When Astral Knowledge reaches 20, switch to Power Bolt II. At 25, switch to Power Blast II. At 40, switch to Power Bolt III. At 45, switch to Power Blast III. Note that the tier 2 and 3 spells will increase the casting cost drastically while increasing the damage very moderately. So keeping Power Bolt I and Power Blast I even at high level is an alternative if you don't want to carry a truckload of restore mana potions.

The early midgame (23-30) is probably the hardest part of this build. Stay in the Orc Caves as long as you can, kill uniques (especially Azog, he can drop great items), and try to stockpile a lot of gold -- because if you're not lucky enough, you'll have to buy your vital gear from player shops or even from the black market. Around level 26, the experience curve starts to become exponential instead of linear and you will require a lot more of experience to level up. This is the main drawback of playing a Maia: 400% xp penalty. If the experience in Orc Caves is too low, try to stairscum Mordor -50ft but be careful of the random nasty that may spawn and instagib your character.

Once you hit level 31, max out Holy Support and buy a book of Sense Monsters (sell Detect Evil) to get a full ESP spell (unless you have already found a source of full ESP). Keep maxing out sword mastery and interception, raise Astral Knowledge according to your mana pool (for an average mana pool of 60/80, skill value should be raised to 15/20), and raise Holy Defense to 30 to get base resistance (minus poison) from casting Holy Resistance II (buy the book, sell the old one). Use ESP to scum for stat potions. If you didn't get one yet, buy a book of Power Blast I and use the spell to wipe groups of dark elven warlocks (but only use the spell once since a second casting would wipe all drops!). Stay shallow Mordor and kill stuff you can handle (packs of demons, ancient dragons...). Buy a *lot* of ID scrolls, inscribe them !X and identify all weapons you find (even non-swords) to get an artifact weapon that can kill the Ringwraiths (one with slay evil/undead if possible). If you want, replace your Blessing II book by a Blessing III book to turn your bless spell into a Holy Prayer. You can also buy a book of Zeal I to get one extra attack when fighting tough monsters.

At level 38, max out Holy Support again and buy a book of Sense Surroundings II to get Clairvoyance (sell the old one). You should also max out Holy Defense and buy a book of Holy Resistance III (again sell the old book) to get the full resistance effect (base + poison). Keep maxing out sword mastery and interception, raise Astral Knowledge with any spare skill points (mana shouldn't be a problem anymore). If you scummed for stat pots, your stats should be pretty much maxed at this point and you should have your base 5 blows per round. Time to forget about max dps and build your speed. As soon as you can, buy an amulet of trickery (+3 or so, also gives res poison/nexus and boosts dex) and speed boots (+4 or +5 should be affordable), then a ring of speed (*very* expensive, +6 should be possible to get for less than a million au). With +13/+14 speed, you should be comfortable deep in Mordor. At this point, you should have an expendable randart weapon with slay undead or slay evil, so scum for nazguls in Mordor or Minas and try to kill them all (minus the Witch-King if you cannot find him). Once they are all dead, you'll be able to wield your most powerful weapon without the risk of getting it destroyed (just watch out for those swordsmasters who can disarm).

Since you should have 8 books by now (Holy Light I, Sense Monsters, Sense Surroundings II, Zeal I, Blessing III, Holy Resistance III, Power Bolt II and Power Blast II), you should probably invest into codices. I would put Holy Light I, Sense Monsters and Sense Surroundings II in a "Codex of Holy Support" (since those spells won't change until he end), and Blessing III and Holy Resistance III in a "Codex of Holy Defense" (the third slot will be filled with Glyph of Warding once the fail rate for this spell is acceptable). Keep Zeal I, Power Bolt II and Power Blast II alone since they will be updated later. Then you're down to 5 book slots in inventory.

From now on, max out sword mastery, interception and Holy Support. Every spare point should go into Astral Knowledge until it's also maxed out (don't forget to switch to Power Bolt/Blast III once you can). Holy Defense should be raised last. Next books to buy are Relocation (recall) and Empowerment (fury). When you have 40 in Holy Support, switch to Zeal II (+2 attacks). At 49, switch to Zeal III (+3 attacks). Along the way, buy Glyph of Warding. Once you can afford them, buy tomes of Holy Support, Holy Defense and Astral Grimoires. Try to max out as many stats as you can: you will need strength and dexterity for melee, constitution for hps, intelligence for astral spells and wisdom for prayers. Try to max out your speed. Once you're high level enough, buff yourself with Empowerment, Blessing and Zeal before each tough fight and you should be good!

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tangar
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Re: Paladins

Post by tangar » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:01 pm

I found that at http://angband.oook.cz/ there are only maia's paladins around in recent times, kinda weird; looks like inbalance.
Tangar's tileset, addon, guides & maps: English TomeNET page ||||||| Russian TomeNet page
http://youtube.com/GlazGame — streams in English // http://youtube.com/StreamGuild — streams in Russian
My chars @ angband.oook.cz

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