[suggestion] IDDC reform: 3 steps

Ideas for cool stuff in the future.
Pondos
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Re: [suggestion] IDDC reform: 3 steps

Post by Pondos »

Maybe just increased chance of egos to appear on shops for start? Never found speed boots example from dungeon after 3 years of iddc. Having 750k cash at 3k makes me wait, since they do appear on shops eventually. This waiting time could be shorter.
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tangar
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Re: [suggestion] IDDC reform: 3 steps

Post by tangar »

there is already anti-cheeze for not allowing trading in first 5 floors. So devs tried to prevent cheezing. And its right. Now its time to make everything really _clean_ and _fair_

Why IDDC called IDDC?

IronMan - it has to be hard, without right on mistake. At the same time it has to be equal for everyone; main thing has to be your game skill, you experience and knowledge; not just the time which you spend in shops.

Deep Dive - It has to be diving. Deep - with minimal time for cheezing something somewhere. Dive! Not to sit in city for some days. Of course you could do - but its _not right_ to get advantages for time which you spend in shops.

Challenge - it whas to be competition. Fair. So everyone would have equal options and possibilites to get into ladder.

There is no way to ignore cheezing, especially if there is a competition. And we got it http://www.tomenet.eu/legends-iddc.php . You don't cheeze - you have little chances to compete with people who do. Example:
I've just gave ~50k (25k gold + 33k iron crown) from one char to another @ -1000 town. I could repeat it more times; do it in 2k also. Cover all resistances. Its easy to do. And its boring. It makes me stop playing IDDC - I don't have desire to grind to get certain advantages. Its like using cheats in the game - game become boring. But IDDC design has such possibilities in mechanics right now. If there is a ladder and competition - people would use 'holes' in game design. It has to be fixed. Again: there is already anti-cheeze for not allowing trading in first 5 floors. So devs started this anti-cheezing trend long time ago. With this 3 steps it could be almost completely finished and without too much efforts ('o' function, 'player stores', 'stealing restrictions' - already implemented.. need to customize it).

Again, there is most obvious cheezing 'hole'; an algorythm:

1) create "A" character (for example, batty with stealing), go till -1000. It would be your "bank" character.
2) create "B" second IDDC character (batty rogue again - cause of speed bonus) and go like a hurricane to -1000
3) take all stuff from "B" to "A". Your bank character would get ~20-25k gold, useful items and equipment (some arts&egos could cost _a lot_, so its much more then just 25k)
4) delete "B" character and go paragraph 2
5) when you get enough gold for top equip - create your "main" char and play. Do it till you get to -2000 & repeat there.

Its ok to have cheezing in 'non-IDDC' gameplay. But in IDDC it has to be RESTRICTED. IronMan. Deep Dive. Challenge.

So I still trust in initial 3 steps (please check 1st message in the topic):
1) order anything - so you don't need to sit shops for months to cheeze sales and certain items for months. Right now, IDDC = shopping grind.
2) 'player stores' - so you can't transfer money or items without anything in return, no cheeze in IDDC
3) stealing restrictions. Its forbidden to sell stolen goods at via 'player store'. To make previous 1 and 2 points work well.

Also I like Pondos idea:
allow trading freely only with those players wich did enter in a same party.
But I'll add to it - allow it only for 'Iron Team'-type parties

It would make game IDDC more dynamic and fair - all players would be equal, no matter how hours you stayed in the shop :) Only you _playing_ skill (and of course luck ;) ) would matter.

p.s.
I hope its undestandable despite of my bad English that this '3 steps' would make gameplay _harder_, not easier. People wouldn't be able to buy items on 'sales' or cheeze with alts. They have to fight to get items, not to sit in towns. 1 hour in the dungeon is equal to week sitting in shop, but shops are safe. I don't understand why some people protect current IDDC gameplay holes so vigorously... Are you fans of sitting shops for months? Damm you could do it anyway, stay in town as much as you want, even with this'3 steps'. You wouldn't get any advantages from it though... And its right. Wanna make character more powerful - go and fight. Town sitting has to do nothing to your character power _in IDDC_. IronMan. Deep Dive. Challenge. its not Grindfest Shopping Cheezing Townsitting. :)
Tangar's tileset, addon, guides & maps: English TomeNET page ||||||| Russian TomeNet page
http://youtube.com/GameGlaz — streams in English // http://youtube.com/StreamGuild — streams in Russian
My chars @ angband.oook.cz
Pondos
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Re: [suggestion] IDDC reform: 3 steps

Post by Pondos »

For my experience, having not enough cash when arriving on 1k or 2k is hardly a problem. Those anti-cheeze options for that maybe not useful at all.

Since all the right eq&misc wont save from bad play. If not having all resses or certain one, better skip those foes and continue diving.

But IF having enough cash, make egos appear more often, since almost everybody will wait certain items to appear, and thats just waiting and waiting. End results will be same.
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tangar
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Re: [suggestion] IDDC reform: 3 steps

Post by tangar »

1) Gold matters. You could buy best items and play not only 'chaos draconian' race for melee char (which is most popular IDDC choise for resistances), but any race - you got enough gold to buy items to cover all resistances...
2) You could not only cheeze to get gold to buy egos from shops, but also cheeze powerful egos and even arts from drop_great monsters at pre-2000 lvls EZPZ - to move them to from one to another character.

Its pretty obvious that your equipment - its second (or third - after luck) factor which matters (playing skill -> luck/bad-luck -> equipment). If you would perform some cheezing (like giving items from 10 characters @ 3k town to your main) - I'm pretty sure that there would be quite different results in http://www.tomenet.eu/legends-iddc.php
Tangar's tileset, addon, guides & maps: English TomeNET page ||||||| Russian TomeNet page
http://youtube.com/GameGlaz — streams in English // http://youtube.com/StreamGuild — streams in Russian
My chars @ angband.oook.cz
Pondos
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Re: [suggestion] IDDC reform: 3 steps

Post by Pondos »

You are just wrong because death is always about bad play. I can say this straight to you Tangar because you dont have experience enough yet. Experience is most of that how to avoid risky situations, not just go steaming all in with destroyng all misc quickly. I hope you could understand this.
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tangar
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Re: [suggestion] IDDC reform: 3 steps

Post by tangar »

No offence, but when people has nothing to say about facts, they turn to personality, very typical.

I pretty aware about my gaming experience, thank you :) I'm not experienced player compare to a lot of other TomeNET players. I play TomeNET only 2 years and know decently (but far away from perfect) only low-mid (pre-angband <3k) gameplay. Also wanna note that I play only NE characters and play solo, so its not totally EZPZ gameplay. Anyway, it doesn't matter to IDDC balance; all what I'm writing about - its just pure logic...

So could you please just honestly answer this simple questions, to provide some facts about this topics:

I) are you disagree that the main factors which matters when you have to die or survive is:

1) gaming skill. main factor.
2) your equipment. very major factor.
3) your personal luck/bad-luck (I put it at third place cause equipment matters more actually). middle factor (with skill and equipment you could get out of very tight spots)
4) everything else...

II) Is influencing at 2nd (very major factor) would increase you chances to survive bad situations?

III) if equipment doesn't matter to you, why you are waiting for +speed boots in shop for a one month? :mrgreen:

IV) what do you think - would you be able to beat current records (http://www.tomenet.eu/legends-iddc.php) if you would have, for example, 10x more resources (gold, egos & arts from drop) which is very possible to get from cheezing from one char to another?
Tangar's tileset, addon, guides & maps: English TomeNET page ||||||| Russian TomeNet page
http://youtube.com/GameGlaz — streams in English // http://youtube.com/StreamGuild — streams in Russian
My chars @ angband.oook.cz
Pondos
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Re: [suggestion] IDDC reform: 3 steps

Post by Pondos »

Its not personal, just observation in general, you stream alot do you? :P
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tangar
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Re: [suggestion] IDDC reform: 3 steps

Post by tangar »

No point to continue this discussion...

It seems that you was offended by this simple 4 questions. Its sad :( Questions are pretty neutral, but answering them would show that you were wrong in something. I'm very often wrong too, but we have to accept our mistakes, its life and we are humans - errare humanum est.

I hope that you would give honest answers to them at least to yourself.
Tangar's tileset, addon, guides & maps: English TomeNET page ||||||| Russian TomeNet page
http://youtube.com/GameGlaz — streams in English // http://youtube.com/StreamGuild — streams in Russian
My chars @ angband.oook.cz
Pondos
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Re: [suggestion] IDDC reform: 3 steps

Post by Pondos »

A new day with great news from devs. Finally we got something true and straight for all of us. :)

Toplist should be cleared rightaway, and excisting IDDC chars would go on to that old toplist, wich should be kept only on website. With that option, no need to give any deadlines to dive em before clearing the list. This is fair for everybody, and those whos not been online lately and not aware pending changes.

Let the games begin. ;)
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tangar
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Re: [suggestion] IDDC reform: 3 steps

Post by tangar »

Pondos wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:39 pm 2. Make shops to have constant prizes, like 75% of normal prizes. No more extra sales allowed. Special potionshop on 2k and 4k out of this idea, that shop never on anykind of sale.
Yes, please. Grinding for sales is so devastating :E~~~ Maybe not 75, but 50 though, so it would be not too ezpz
Tangar's tileset, addon, guides & maps: English TomeNET page ||||||| Russian TomeNet page
http://youtube.com/GameGlaz — streams in English // http://youtube.com/StreamGuild — streams in Russian
My chars @ angband.oook.cz
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